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Sunday, January 1. 2006Will the Zend Framework save PHP ?Trackbacks
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The issue i see with php5, is the new OOP structure, and if I made a huge software package (like most people use, like invision, and drupal, ect), I would hate to have to upgrade to the a new language. PHP3 to PHP4 upgrade was pretty well done, but this one wasnt.
You forgot to mention the fact that host are really depending on software like Cpanel and Directadmin and that these work out of the box with full support. php5 still has no support from these control panel makers and if php6 or Zend framework is not supported by these then they will also meet the same fate as php5.
Web hosting companies really don't have the time or fininacing to go in and tweak hundreds of instances of Cpanel to accept php5. Especially when the reason they are using the software is because they don't want to have to do this. Zend is going to have to do some serious work in cooperating with these companies to get them set up to run whatever they release right away.
I made some server migration last month, and in this migration I chosed VHCS, http://vhcs.net, instead of CPanel, because I didn't want to keep paying for CPanel, and I'm very happy to say that it worked with php5.1
I also tried some clients system to check they worked under php5.1 like vtiger, sugarcrm, phpbb, and osCommerce, and they worked very fine (with 2 or 5 lines of code changed). So.... I think the fear to upgrade to php5.1 is nothing more than fear.
I cann't wait for the Zend framework to come! I have been reading about frameworks, and the one I started to lear was Solar, http://solarphp.com, because it was designed for php5 (now 5.1) but now, I don't know if I should wait for the ZFW or keep reading about solar and start working with it.
I guess it depends how urgent your current needs are. I don't think we'll see anything ZFW related for a good few months yet. Although I'm as excited as you about the potential it will bring!
I have (for some time now) started my new projects to be only php5 compatible, and eventually porting the php5 OO code to php6 should not be much of a problem.
Php5 makes for efficient coding, and makes a whole new worls possible through its OO implementation. E.g, Php-GTK(2) grew in leaps and bounds with the release of php5.(1). The speed advantage by using Zend Engine 2 (php5) is absolutely amazing, compared to php4. Again, it's only the super-slow acceptance of php5 and php5.1 by major web hosting companies that is slowing down the adoption of php5 and, especially, php5.1. From a Linux/Unix perspective, the adoption process should surely speed up if permanent teams could be assigned to the php project to create packages for all the major Linux distributions as soon as a new php version is made available. If I don't compile the latest sources myself, I usually have to wait about 3 months+ for binary packages to appear, and about 8 months+ for SOME of the hosting companies to adopt the new version. Strangely enough, this never seems to be the case with php4! You will probably always find the latest-and-greatest php4 version on your host. THAT is what is hindering php5+'s progress so much, to spite the fact that it is so much superior to php4!
The reason most hosts haven't made the switch is because PHP5 breaks so many popular packages made with PHP4. phpbb is named in the article, another one that comes off the top of my head is phpauction.
It's the wide use of programs that break with PHP5 that has web hosts worried about making the switch. You can't say "It's because the vendors won't support it." PHP5 and PHP5.1 (beta support) support is in WHM/CPanel, and you can install it. Hosts are reluctant, not vendors. Sometimes I wonder if maybe there should have been a seperate compatability package released for PHP5, giving it some legacy compatability the more popular PHP4 programs need. It may have spurred adoption of PHP5 early on, and there would be little to hold people back from upgrading.
The fact that 'yum' won't install PHP 5 easily could be slowing down PHP 5's adoption. Perhaps if it was made universal that .php5 would run on PHP 5, while keeping .php as PHP 4 would make sense. Just like Microsoft's .asp and .aspx
I definitely agree with this. I've been using computers since a very young age and programming in some form for most of those. I can pick up new packages and languages pretty quickly. But...
it took me a few days of Googling, etc to give me the confidence and the knowledge to do it, and even then it wasn't completely straightforward. I think if Zend want people to pick up more on PHP5 (and other future releases), then they really have got to make it easier on the average Joe to install. Installing a package to install an installer (YUM) to install and upgrade is a bit crazy on the brain. I think personally that it's not just PHP that's to blame, but all these open-source companies that come together to make the parts of LAMP. It's possibly not unreasonable to say that people who have Apache generally use MySQL and PHP. People who use PHP tend to use MySQL, and vice versa. So basically, they all kind of depend on each other to keep popularity high. If they're keen in keeping that going, then maybe there should be more of an effort by all of these bodies to pull together and make it easier for people to get these products working together properly, regardless of what OS/distro is being used.
I think it is more complicated than just the reluctance of major hosts to offer php5. Most of them currently seem to offer it as an option after your initial account is setup. (You fill in a support request for the change.)
I think there is an evolutionary problem that has confronted many languages. Original php through php3 were heavily geared toward hackers, slashers, and amateurs. Language evolution is driven by the high-end development community and pressure to support more and more of the current technological buzz. As this happens the language becomes more mature and increases it suitability for use in the enterprise and commercial development. The down-side to this is that evolution increases complexity. It is this increase in complexity that tempers growth and expansion. The demographic that was originally attracted to the language is no longer the demographic targeted for the features. As such, adoption rates fall because it is no longer a casual language where you can get things done, it is a professional development environment. I think Visual Basic is another good example of this type of evolution. It was simple and easy to use in V3.0 but became increasingly complex with each new release. In each new release it gained more professional programmer advocates but lost some appeal to casual and amateur programmers. It is this change in demographic appeal to Visual Basic that has helped to drive casual corporate programmers to simple, more efficient languages. The more suitable php becomes for the high-end professional developer the less appeal it has for the casual market. And unless you're a professional programmer, constantly reinventing your skill set to do the same job (better?) does not hold a lot of appeal. "If it aint broke, don't fix it." Will the ZendFramwork save PHP5, not likely since it is alread November 2006 and a stable 1.0 release is no where in site. I loaded the 0.2.0 release (the most recent) and every sample I tried broke because of changes to core functionality. Its interesting but until there is a stable 1.0 release it will remain a curiosity for me. I need something I can use now not just someone's vision. Charlie
just if u don't know, there is a nice framework based on php5:
www.symfony-project.com Version 1.0 is not far 0.9xxx at the moment |
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